As a newbie here, and just to trigger a conversation, I thought I'd ask who you think the greatest of all time is and why? It doesn't have to be a single fighter, as choosing a single greatest is probably impossible (well it is for me) but a little explanation of why you think they should be considered the greatest will be very interesting to read.

To start us off, I'll give you mine. I have two, one I think is the greatest mixed martial artist, and one the greatest MMA fighter (slight difference that I will explain).

First is Randy Couture. I personally believe he embodies MMA to a degree no one else does. He doesn't always win, but he never says no to a hard fight, and he has had a shit-load of them. Outside the ring is where he really makes his mark. He is such a gentleman and, at least in regards to the sport, so intelligent and eloquent that he is a perfect ambassador for MMA in general not just the UFC. Dana White is a crude, thuggish man, but he sells UFC really well. Couture however is who I would point at and say "See son, that's who you want to be when you grow up."

First equal is Bas Rutten. Once again very eloquent and intelligent doing as much for the sport out of the ring as in. However in this case Rutten is a killer. Watch his career and you can see the man get better and better, never really looking like anyone would beat him, even when he lost. At the end of his career he was more dominant than at the beginning (Couture stayed as dominant, but is trailing off now). In fact I believe he could get back in the cage right now and make a run at a UFC title.

So there we have it - Randy Couture and Bas Rutten are the greatest MMA fighters of all time in my opinion.

What do you guys think?

I can say that I agree with a lot of things. Especially with the role-modeling part.

But when it comes to the greatest or the GOAT it is hard to say, probably because different variables are taken into account when trying to measure.

in my opinion the greatest MIXED MARTIAL ARTIST should be defined by these simple things:

- Titles (not just the quantity but the quality of the organization that the title represents)

- Amount of wins against quality opponents, rematches & consistency in dominating opponents through out the fights, skills

- Title defenses, how they are defended (decisioning or finishes, finish is of course better)

by these standards I would say GSP, Anderson Silva, Bas Rutten after that comes Fedor, BJ Penn, Hughes, Liddell in no particular order...

but if I could say the greatest, I would have to say GSP... just for how he dominates fights with perfect technique, the well-roundedness, consistency & effectivenes, avenged both of his losses (1 to possibly the most dominant WW champ Matt Hughes, 1 to formar heavyhanded WW champ Matt Serra).

GSP is the greatest of all time, even though he is active and I believe he should currently be the #1 P4P by a good margin.

How is that? and no I am not a GSP fan, in fact I think his fights have become rather boring. but you gotta admit the truth.

I can see your point, but I am kind of biased to old hands I guess, guys there at the beginning of the sport. Maybe in few years GSP would be my greatest too, but I was sort of judging more than just the fights.

The thing I like about GSP is that he is a natural athlete, but that's not makes him great - he works harder than most anyone to perfect the art of MMA fighting. I guess I see that same quality in Rutten, but being an older hand...

You know, the reason I didn't exclude GSP from being a greatest due to his active status is because of the young age the sport is in. I mean many pioneers are still active, but I can see why Bas Rutten is there on the top. Definitely deserves it.

What I can't understand though is why aspects that hasn't much to do with MMA is so important when trying to find who the greatest Mixed Martial Artist is?

Being a humble guy, athletic, etc shouldn't be important at all. I solely look at accomplishments.

I guess my Tae Kwon Do training from when I was 7 still lurks in there somewhere, because IMHO Mixed Martial Arts is the ultimate Martial Art, and to steal a line from Jackie Chan's versions of The Karate Kid "Gung Fu is everything".

To me "the greatest" isn't about the fights, because everyone loses sooner or later, and the sport develops as does the skill and athletic ability of the fighters. So even the crappiest fighter today would probably be a champ back then. To me it should be about their over all impact, and to me GSP hasn't yet had enough of an impact to truly be considered GREATER than say Couture or Rutten or even a number of other old hands. He has certainly equaled Rutten in the fighting department, but the reason he CAN devote so much time to training and has enough money for strength and conditioning coaches is because the old hands created the atmosphere in which he "grew up", so to speak.

In other words, there are guys out there who could beat both Rutten and Couture up, I'm sure, but would I care what they have to say about the fight? Probably not. But when Rutten talks about his sport and his life, he has so much fun with it and enjoys every aspect of it, that I always listen to what he has to say.

Here is a perfect example of the difference in my book between a great fighter and the greatest: After Lesnar took his last HW title (probably ) Couture was not only gracious in defeat, praising Lesnar's commitment to the sport etc, he also offered to help Lesnar train. Not only did he help him, but Lesnar has never looked better. I doubt it is all due to Couture, but at least some of it is.

And that is not the exception that proves the rule. Couture has been one of the great trainers as well as one of the great fighters and personalities. The same goes for Rutten.

My greatest has to have had an impact on the entire sport, not just in the cage, but outside it and for the future. Xtreme Couture could be making champions for decades after Couture is no longer fighting... another reason I consider him one of, if not the greatest.