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 Post subject: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Hey I like this season :) Its awesome. Im also starting to like Yaeger more and more, not because he won but because I think I understand where he's coming from now.

Didnt take him much to finish off that guy either, pretty slick.

The Kaesey or whatever you spell his name like dude is a pain in the ass and Im happy he lost to DQ.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Ya I didn't really care for him Kasey either.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:18 pm 
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It was ok up til the point where he kept on accusing Yaeger for stealing even after the other dude said he took the jacket or whatever it was. I agree with "no point to be naggering the whole season" philosophy hehe and it would have been better to simply drop it.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:30 pm 
Lol, I must admit I keep hating Yager more and more... Most annoying man ever :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:57 am 
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What do you guys think of the slam that Attonito put on Uscola? I'd have to re-watch it but it looked like a head-spike to me, which is not legal under unified rules. If that's the case, the fight should have been halted to check on Uscola.

As for the knees, I saw the last knee rake across Attonito's temple. This could have definitely caused a level of disorientation that would make it hard for a fighter to continue. It seems silly to accuse him of acting or looking for a way out - he was dominating the fight until that point. It's possible that he completely gassed after his first onslaught and panicked, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:17 am 
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sixdemonbag wrote:
What do you guys think of the slam that Attonito put on Uscola? I'd have to re-watch it but it looked like a head-spike to me, which is not legal under unified rules. If that's the case, the fight should have been halted to check on Uscola.

As for the knees, I saw the last knee rake across Attonito's temple. This could have definitely caused a level of disorientation that would make it hard for a fighter to continue. It seems silly to accuse him of acting or looking for a way out - he was dominating the fight until that point. It's possible that he completely gassed after his first onslaught and panicked, but I give him the benefit of the doubt.

Slam was legal beacuse Uscola was going for a kimura before and during the slam
Yea with those knees it would only take slight contact to do damage. Plus he deserved to get the DQ just for being stupid enough to throw like 3 knees to the head while the guy is clearly down


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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:01 am 
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noshelter wrote:
Slam was legal beacuse Uscola was going for a kimura before and during the slam


Where does that interpretation come from? The language of Unified Rules regarding spiking is unfortunately vague and makes no mention of exceptions for sub defense:

"25. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck."

It seems like any attempt to vertically slam an opponent head-first would be considered spiking, regardless of whether or not the victim tucks his head under and lands on the shoulders. Attonito's slam looked similar to Marquardt's slam of Leites, if memory serves.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:44 pm 
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sixdemonbag wrote:
noshelter wrote:
Slam was legal beacuse Uscola was going for a kimura before and during the slam


Where does that interpretation come from? The language of Unified Rules regarding spiking is unfortunately vague and makes no mention of exceptions for sub defense:

"25. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his or her head or neck."

It seems like any attempt to vertically slam an opponent head-first would be considered spiking, regardless of whether or not the victim tucks his head under and lands on the shoulders. Attonito's slam looked similar to Marquardt's slam of Leites, if memory serves.

"It should be noted that when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent, they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponent's body," Lembo wrote. "The fighter who is attempting the submission can either adjust their position or let go of the hold before being slammed to the canvas."
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=m ... lant_legal


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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:42 pm 
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noshelter wrote:
"It should be noted that when a fighter is placed into a submission hold by their opponent, if that fighter is capable of elevating their opponent, they may bring that opponent down in any fashion they desire because they are not in control of their opponent's body," Lembo wrote. "The fighter who is attempting the submission can either adjust their position or let go of the hold before being slammed to the canvas."
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=m ... lant_legal



Thanks for the link...interesting stuff. But what about this bit from the same article, which apparently isn't legal:

"any throw where you control your opponent's body (while) placing his feet straight up in the air with his head straight down and then forcibly drive your opponent's head into the canvas or flooring material,"

I would say that this more accurately describes the situation between Attonito and Uscola. The difference between these two scenarios seems to be the amount of control you have over the opponent's body and the point at which you're "placed into a submission hold." Uscola had a hold on his arm, and it can be assumed that he would have gone for a kimura, but you certainly can't say that at the time of the slam Attonito was "placed in a submission hold." Attonito performed a high-crotch lift and was in complete control of his opponent's body. Uscola's feet were pointed directly at the ceiling when Attonito drove him into the canvas head-first. I'm not saying he should have been DQ'd, but I think Rosenthal could have stopped the action, checked on Uscola, and warned Attonito about spiking.

I think that first quote from Lembo refers more to situations when you have someone in a RNC or triangle choke. At that point the opponent could defend the slam by letting go. Uscola could have released the arm and still would have been slammed. Fortunately he had the presence of mind to tuck his head and take the impact on his shoulders, but if he hadn't would this have been called a foul? It's an interesting gray area.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] The Ultimate Fighter 11 Fourth Episode
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Quote:
I think that first quote from Lembo refers more to situations when you have someone in a RNC or triangle choke. At that point the opponent could defend the slam by letting go. Uscola could have released the arm and still would have been slammed. Fortunately he had the presence of mind to tuck his head and take the impact on his shoulders, but if he hadn't would this have been called a foul? It's an interesting gray area.


I agree its definitely a grey area since there so many submissions. It seems like its up to the ref to decide if he was actually in danger of being submitted and slammed to get out of the sub. In this case he definitely did lol :lol: those slams always make me cringe but theyre so exciting


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