Yes I agree that the challenger must defeat the champion to get the belt. This fight was not defeating the champion, I also agree to that. Still I am not sure I could score this fight to Machida how ever I counted but thats another story...



You are right imo. Joe Rogan favoured, probably uncocious about it, Shogun and commented a lot about how good he "really is" etc. Yes Lyoto did punch him a few times and Shogun is a tough dude. I cant say no to that. Did Lyoto Punch Shogun more times then Shogun kicked Machida? Hard to say but it didnt feel like it. Will have to carefully watch it again.



Remember that in japan for example they dont normally count a takedown as a point. Rules and perception vary a lot. I think a kick to the head can beat 10 punches if its strong enough while a legkick isnt much to talk about. But thats my opinion... Its really hard to say, but the important thing is that the judges are consequent and judge all fights equal.



thx for nice post



I agree that sometimes you wonder where the hell these guys come from... Im not going to argue to the end of my days about a deciscion made by "professionals". but it sure looked weird to me for sure!



lol, yeah well I think the sport is in evolution and I hope the judges and the way they make their counting is also developing and changing in the same rythm so that they modernize their methods in some way to make wins or losses more clear to the fighters and the public!

thx guys

And athletic commission is under the influence of Fertitas. They bought UFC for candy as NSAC wouldn't allow UFC to continue under SEG.

After watching dream 12 I can just say yaaaaaaawn to ufc

Thoughts on the main event:

These are probably my two favorite fighters so this was a dream matchup for me. After the fight I was REALLY impressed with both fighters.

I was a bit nervous as to how Machida would handle getting hit, being so elusive and all... but damn. Having Shogun chop on his legs and body for for 25 minutes and still fighting competitively (although you could see his movement became increasingly impaired) towards the end really impressed me. Allthough he didn't really do much damage, Machida's flurry towards the end of round 3 was easily my favorite part of the fight. His clinch and takedown defense I felt was really good too.

For Shogun's part I absolutely loved his approach.. the perfect gameplan really. GREAT legkick counters which were inflicting ALOT of damage, and they were almost ALWAYS there as an answer to Lyoto's straights (which I would consider his main offensive weapon). Like in the Liddell fight his blocking was also great the entire fight through. Bringing the fight to Machida like that... EXTREMELY rare. WOW.

As for the controversy. I had the first two rounds almost being toss-ups, but a slight advantage in both going to Shogun, the third to Machida and the last two for Shogun. When Machida was announced the winner I was kind of shocked, but in no way do I believe he was robbed, like the rest of the entire internet seems to believe. IMHO this was a real close fight and Shogun should not have taken anything for granted going towards the end.

All in all... a beautiful technical chess match. I feel bad for Machida winning when everyone believes he lost and I feel bad for Shogun who did not get the belt after employing a PERFECT gameplan PERFECTLY, and fighting one of the best fights in his career. Can't wait for the rematch.. and hoping for a KO/TKO in the later rounds.

I must admit I am new to all of this and UFC104 was the first event I watched on a stream. In the past I did see K1 fights and boxing matches though. The stream froze in the first round so I kinda missed that one and have not yet watched it again. However I did feel like Shogun deserved to win and my first reaction was rip off.

Sure, as stated above, leg kicks are not so impressive as head kicks or punches. But when I looked at the last round I felt like Machida was really hurt by it. He slowed down and walked somewhat difficult it seemed to me. In boxing they punch at the stomach as well and maybe these are also not as spectacular to see, yet it surely does damage, especially to your breathing

I heard so much about how good Machida was and therefore I was a bit disappointed to see how he fought. It happens a lot when big matches are arranged. It was more tactics than hardcore fighting. Based on that as well I was more impressed by Shogun whom at least attempted to fight in stead of counterstrike. But those counters at times were pretty massive from Machida

As soon as I have organized my laptop and desktop a bit better for HDD space/downloads I will surely watch some other events.

PS: most impressed I was by Ben Rothwell Vs. Cain Velasquez. That was not a match but pure destruction.

We can dream. These guys are going to go away, and keep learning. When they have the rematch it will be just as technical. Both men will be just as cautious. It'll still be AWSOME to watch again, don't get me wrong. I can't wait. But I wouldn't be surprised if it went to decision again.



Why can't you enjoy both of them? Besides which, I thought this was an amazing event.

I think that as a big fan of both you could count as a neutral observer and your observations are interesting. Shogun did execute a perfect gameplan and you had him winning by slight advantage. I think that after calming down and watching it again we can all agree that that was exactly the case. then why didnt the judges from the athletic commision see same as the rest of the world? That is the question.

Sure Machida did a good job and he wasnt classed out at all. But as Dragonfoxy says:



I think I was also expecting a lot more from Machida and most of us did. Maybe they where close to a draw and Machida really did a good job of counterstriking, but did he win the fight?

Great to see that you like it Dragonfoxy your observations are good.


And to DasGruntLord:

Sorry you are right. I did enjoy both. I was just so taken by the white cage yesterday I felt a happiness spread in the whole body watching it. And I didnt feel that after UFC 104. More like confusion and of being robbed of something.

Dont get me wrong. UFC is great, epic and the biggest organisation with the most quantity of very good fighters without a doubt. WEC even better entertainement then UFC lately.

And the best is that there is a great variety of events and promotions and not just 1.

hope it won't happen again.. am no expert in judging competition but it was clear, no doubt about it...should be a new light heavyweight champ in favor of shogun rua..so frustrating..too bad

For being new (as you mentioned), your comments are extremely well put and accurate. I do agree that the leg kicks hurt Machida...he did slow and changed his stance a couple of times.

I guess it seems to me that the judges don't put any stock into those kicks and if you want them to count for you, you have to use the wearing down, slowing effect of those kicks to "really" hurt or finish your opponent later on. I should emphasize that I am talking about leg/body kicks...I agree that a landed kick to the head does get more credit...

After watching the fight a couple of times, I still think you have to take the title from the champ and Shogun didn't do it. Perhaps I'm slightly more biased after hearing that he slowed himself down after his camp told him he was easily ahead. No fighter, especially a challenger to a title, should ever slow down, expecting the judges to give it to you. In the end, I think a draw with Machida retaining the title would have been fairer then a win, but it's not often to get a draw in a odd round affair.

How about the following changes:

- 6 rounds (make a draw more possible..perhaps the fighter go harder to avoid a draw)
- 10 minute first and/or fifth rounds (skilled fighters can turn 5 minutes into a 90-second round with all the posturing)
- Announcing the scores of the round immediately after the round (scare the judges and let the fighter know where they stand)

Machida even says he won. He says he won 4-1.

Disgusting.