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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:06 pm 
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SyMBi0TiK wrote:
lenoz... i thought it seemed like that...
i was watching it live though so i couldnt rewind or anything...
but it definitely seemed like the 10 second warning was late or the bell was early...

Glad someone else noticed - it's a pretty huge thing, completely changed the fight's outcome.
As far as the on-screen clocks, the 10 second warning comes (from memory) at about 8 seconds (so yes, a bit late), and then the full time buzzer at maybe 5 seconds left (though the on-screen clock has disappeared by this point).

Admittedly an educated guess, I've always assumed the on-screen clock is not an official timekeeping device, it is controlled entirely by the UFC whilst the ACTUAL timekeeping that marks the rounds is controlled by the state commission. (This, I've assumed, is why the UFC always removes the clock at about 10 seconds or so in order to reduce the chance of controversy with big hits landing around the end of the round.) Anyway, regardless of whether I'm correct in my assumptions about who controls what, the bell should always be sounded precisely 10 seconds after the clappers, completely independent of whatever time the UFC may be showing on their own on-screen clock.

At the end of the day, if the bell had been sounded at the end of the UFC clock, there was at least another 4 or so seconds in the fight, and if the bell had been sounded (as it should rightfully) 10 seconds after the official clappers, there was at least another 7 seconds in the fight. Either way, Harris was going out cold in about 2 seconds judging by the look on his face. It's absolutely huge, totally changed the whole thing and can't believe I haven't seen more comment on it around the net! :o

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:56 am 
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like i said... it was hard to notice watching it live...
we had all jumped up at that point and were cheering for harris to get out...
but i definitely remember thinking there was something strange about the end of the first round...
im pretty sure the bell rings and he still holds the choke for a second or 2 though...
i would think the bell is more significant than the clappers regardless of lateness...
will be interesting to see what or if the mma shows say about it... =\

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:31 am 
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Good points all of you, I agree with what you said Kamara about UFC. And I also rechecked the Falco fight now and WTF!! I thought those blunders where reserved for the smaller promotions where you can expect some misstakes because of inexperience. But to sound the bell 5-7 seconds 'too early' or the clapper too late, thats just ridiculous for a promotion like UFC with over 100 events.

I am also getting really irritated to hear Dana White say in the post presser "...but nobody gives a shit what I think right" and then go and decide that good skilled fighters will not get a title shot because hes 'boring' and an exiting fighter that is shit gets a main event spot and a lot of stuff like that. Its so much bullshit to say he has no influence! Dana decides who jumps and who doesnt and noone believes anything else. He shold stop insulting our intelligence trying to tell us he has no influence over how and who the fighters fight and how they act. Maybe he believes it himself but then I think hes the only one.

Going back to what kamara said, I agree that if they want it to be treated like a real sport and not a circus they have to sharpen up some of their attitudes and stop making freakshow matchups, stop telling the fans and the press a load of bullshit about whos in charge and not. And they need to get some real judges.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Just call me "one step ahead of the MMA media lenoz" :)

Cagepotato article including timed video proof:
http://www.cagepotato.com/timing-error-robs-maiquel-falcao-submission-victory-ufc-123

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:26 pm 
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i just watched the harris/falcao end of round one fiasco...
its definitely clear that both fighters thought there was more time left...
whereas we all heard the bell clear as day... the clappers were hard to hear but were just before the bell...
my question is... when they say fighters are looking at the clock to see how much time is left...
do they mean like an official fight clock or just the big screens with the ufc clock...?
because that could be your explanation right there...
they both think there is 8 seconds left (from screen)...
so neither expects or hears the bell when it comes 2 seconds later...
but if falcao had 3-5 seconds more he would have finished him... =\

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:17 am 
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lenoz wrote:
Just call me "one step ahead of the MMA media lenoz" :)



Very observant ;) "one-step-ahed" lenoz, keep it up!


UFC in talks with Michigan regarding timekeeping issue; officials dismiss conspiracy


While the biggest stories coming from this past weekend's "UFC 123: Rampage vs. Machida" event initially appeared to be a razor-thin decision in the main event and a stunning 21-second victory by B.J. Penn, the center of attention since has shifted dramatically.

Seemingly unnoticed during the main-card matchup between Maiquel Falcao (26-3 MMA, 1-0 UFC) and Gerald Harris (17-3 MMA, 3-1 UFC), the night's official timekeeper may have put a halt to the bout's first round nearly seven seconds early.

With Harris narrowly surviving that first frame while trapped in a deep rear-naked choke, MMA fans and pundits alike since have cried foul. Today, UFC officials said they're on the case, but the culprit is likely simple human error.

"I'm currently talking with the Michigan Unarmed Combat Commission," UFC vice president of regulatory affairs Marc Ratner told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "They were in charge of the regulation for the event."

While the UFC acts a the regulatory body for shows that take place overseas, the Michigan Unarmed Combat Commission was in charge of overseeing UFC 123, which took place Nov. 20 at The Palace of Auburn Hills in suburban Detroit.

There was little doubt that the choke that Falcao locked in place in the closing seconds of the frame had the potential to be a fight-ending submission. Inexplicably, the horn to end the round appeared to sound nearly seven seconds earlier than scheduled, or approximately four minutes and 53 seconds after referee Dan Miragliotta first gave the command to fight.

Conspiracy theorists have since noted the on-screen time clock was removed moments prior to the round-ending signal.

Of course, the UFC's pay-per-view production team traditionally removes the clock with approximately eight seconds left in order to minimize the focus on any minor discrepancy between the broadcast clock and the fight's official clock, which is kept by the commission-appointed timekeeper and is not tied to the timer shown on screen.

Ratner insists the UFC had nothing to do with the ill-timed signal. As a former Nevada State Athletic Commission executive director, Ratner also said he's seen similar errors on a few rare occasions.

"There's no conspiracy," Ratner said. "In my days as the director of the Nevada commission, there were rare instances of timekeeper errors."

MMAjunkie.com contacted the Michigan Unarmed Combat Commission for comment, but a representative for the agency said the commission is currently meeting with its media relation department and is not yet ready to discuss the issue with the public.

UFC president Dana White, who like much of the media was not aware of the timing error until after the fight, said the error indeed was unfortunate.

"It's crazy that the round ended early while Gerald was in that nasty choke," White told MMAjunkie.com. "And Gerald Harris at the end of that first round was out if the timekeeper [expletive] it up by seven seconds. Another half of a second and that dude was asleep.

"But am I shocked that someone screwed up? No. Every event, there's something. The only thing you can do is just bum out and say, 'It happened again.' It's unbelievable."

White long has been openly critical of judging and officiating performances he deems poor, and while the fiery UFC boss believes this appears to be another one of those mistakes, he's not entirely critical of the Michigan commission's performance. While there has been some concern that Quinton "Rampage" Jackson incorrectly was awarded a decision win over Lyoto Machida in the evening's main event, White believes the proper verdict was rendered.

"Rampage won that fight," White said. "Rampage went in with a perfect gameplan, stuck to the gameplan and executed it. Just because Rampage acted like a nutball afterward doesn't mean he didn't win.

"Rampage was the guy engaging the whole fight. Every time Machida would throw leg kicks, Rampage was going after him. I haven't watched the fight again, but that night, I gave that first round to Rampage. I definitely gave the second to Rampage, and I gave the third to Machida."

Of course, the early ending to the first round of the Falcao-Harris fight wasn't the only bit of controversy that emerged. After the ill-timed signal, Falcao, who has shown questionable behavior in previous MMA contests, physically was removed from Harris' back by referee Miragliotta.

White, who noted it's often difficult to hear the official signal, said he doesn't fault Falcao for waiting for Miragliotta's intervention.

"There were a couple of times there where Gerald looked like he was tapping," White said. "When guys get in those chokes and they do that half-tap thing, you hold that choke until the ref pulls you off or until the guy is out.

"I don't think he held the choke too long. We've seen cases in the past where the choke is definitely being held too long. This kid was in a nasty scrap, and Gerald Harris was doing these weird grabbing-the-hand motions. We were sitting there cageside going, 'Did he just tap?' Then you have to wait for the replay to see if they tap."

Falcao's Chute Boxe team also believes there is no reason to question their fighter's intentions with the choke.

"This so-called controversy is being a little bit too overrated, in our opinion," Chute Boxe head Augusto Oliveira told MMAjunkie.com. "Maiquel is very happy for the result and he's looking forward to new challenges.

"As for holding the choke a little too long, as some people are saying, one thing we can say is he's definitely not a dirty fighter. What many people are forgetting is that it was Maiquel's first fight abroad ever, his UFC debut, and also the fact that our team had had two bad results in the UFC in the past month. If you add it all up, Maiquel could have been under a huge pressure for this fight. He overcame it all and we think Maiquel did a pretty good job over a very dangerous opponent."

After the highly entertaining, albeit controversial, first round between Falcao and Harris, the action slowed in the second round and ground to an absolute halt in the third.

At the evening's post-event press conference, White said he'd give Falcao a pass considering he was fighting in the octagon for the first time, but in future appearances he expects the Brazilian to look for the finish for the duration of the contest.

Now armed with knowledge of a potential timing error, White said he still stands behind his initial claims: Falcao could have and should have finished the fight.

"I don't regret those statements at all," White said. "Look at what a good first round it was. Then you're going to have a third round like that? Come on."

He also believes the eventual conclusion of the contest, a fairly lackluster decision in Falcao's favor, should be enough evidence the UFC had nothing to do with the apparent timing mistake.

"Maiquel won, and he's going to stick around," White said. "Anyone who's dumb enough to think that I wouldn't have loved for that fight to end in a nasty rear-naked choke is out of their mind."

As for Falcao, his camp says the middleweight would have loved to earn a submission win, but he's content simply to have tasted victory in his first trip to the octagon.

"We are extremely happy for having another of our fighters in the UFC," Oliveira said. "It's always an honor for us to be among the best. We thank the UFC for the opportunity.

"Maiquel learned a lot from this fight and he has a lot to improve yet. The mistakes he made are not going to be repeated. That's what we are focused on. Everybody can expect a better performance from Maiquel in his next fight."


Source: http://mmajunkie.com/news/21509/ufc-in- ... piracy.mma

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:40 am 
Following loss to Maiquel Falcao, middleweight Gerald Harris released from UFC

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On Monday night, middleweight contender Gerald Harris (17-3 MMA, 3-1 UFC) told MMAjunkie.com Radio that he was happy to still have a job with the UFC.

On Tuesday, he found out he doesn't.

Sources close to Harris informed MMAjunkie.com (http://www.mmajunkie.com) that the two-time "Knockout of the Night" winner and former cast member of "The Ultimate Fighter 7" has been released from the world's biggest mixed martial arts promotion.

When contacted by MMAjunkie.com, Harris also confirmed his release but declined to comment on the matter at this time.

Harris has been at the center of controversy after narrowly avoiding a first-round submission loss to Maiquel Falcao at this past weekend's UFC 123 event, which took place at The Palace of Auburn Hills in suburban Detroit and aired on pay-per-view.

The opening frame appears to have been cut short by approximately seven seconds due to a timekeeping error, and Harris appeared within a fraction of that of being rendered unconscious by a deep rear-naked choke. But Harris supporters also point to Falcao's refusal to immediately release the choke as a reason "Hurricane" wasn't able to compete effectively in the final two frames.

The pace slowed in the final 10 minutes of the fight, and the fighters were booed throughout the third round for their passivity.

UFC president Dana White was openly critical of both fighters at the evening's post-event press conference. The feedback enraged many Falcao supporters who believe their fighter was robbed of a first-round submission win. Today, White told MMAjunkie.com that the Brazilian contingent could take solace in the face that Falcao would eventually return to the octagon with another chance to prove himself deserving of the tag "UFC fighter."

"Their guy us going to stick around," White said in regards to the angered Falcao supporters. "Gerald Harris isn't."

Harris began his association with the UFC as a member of "The Ultimate Fighter 7." He defeated Mike Marrello to enter the "TUF" house but was then defeated by eventual season winner Amir Sadollah in the very next round.

Harris went on to win six fights outside of the UFC before receiving an official invitation to the promotion following a phone call to White while he was a guest on MMAjunkie.com Radio.

Harris debuted for the UFC in January 2010 with a "Knockout of the Night" win over John Salter. He would go on to notch a TKO win over Mario Miranda, as well as another "Knockout of the Night" win over Dave Branch at July's UFC 116 that received heavy play on ESPN as one of SportsCenter's "Top Plays."

The loss to Falcao snapped an official 10-fight win streak for Harris.

While Harris' release will likely prove unpopular with many MMA fans, White recently explained the promotion's sometimes aggressive roster moves are no different than any other professional sport.

"These are the big-leagues, man," White said. "It's no different than Major League Baseball, no different than the NFL. You perform, or you go away."

"I'd rather have two guys in a dog fight and have a guy lose and keep him around than have a guy who's in the Ultimate Staring Competition for five minutes. Nobody wants to see that [expletive]."

Roster spots in all division will continue to remain at a premium in coming months as the UFC absorbs its sister company, the WEC, and the new-look promotion looks to effectively balance its burgeoning list of athletes under contract.

For more on UFC 123, check out the UFC events section of MMAjunkie.com.


http://mmajunkie.com/news/21513/followi ... om-ufc.mma


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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:47 pm 
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While Hughes was coming out of the locker room, they had the audience noise in the background. Unfortunately, they put the mic next to someone booing nonstop.


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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:44 pm 
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lenoz wrote:
SyMBi0TiK wrote:
and that brazilian dude falcao needs a talking to...
holding choke for too long at end of first

So I guess no one else noticed that the bell at the end of the first round came 2, no more than 3, seconds after the 10-second clappers?
That fight never should have gone to the 2nd round, in all honesty he should have been able to hold it for 5 or 6 seconds longer than he did and it was nap time for Harris.


Can't believe somebody else noticed this .. yeah the clapper came at 10 seconds and the timer disappeared when it was at 0:08 and they stopped it just a second after. I was like WTF. I agree, Falcao would've put him to sleep. I really like that guys explosiveness. He didn't throw anything for like the first 4 minutes and then a nice body kick and his first combo with the knee to the solar plexus put Harris down.

BJ Penn .. glad to see BJ Penn I remember fight this time

When he walked out for the Edgar fight he looked like his dog died or something.
Coming out for the Hughes fight he was pumped and yelling shit. When that guy is on, he's on

Nice to see George win ... I like him and Lauzon equally .. I was just amazed how quickly lauzon gassed out.

All in all a good event.

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 Post subject: Re: [SPOILERS] UFC 123 Rampage vs. Machida - Aftertalk!!!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:31 pm 
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In a weird way maybe Jackson did return to his Pride days. He was convinced he lost the fight, and under Pride rules this would have been more likely.


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